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#################### Geoff Seidner
Tuesday, 28 April 2015
THE OZ NOV 10 2014 ‘Pope’ Bob Carr raises party ire on Israel apartheid claim
‘Pope’ Bob Carr raises party ire on Israel apartheid claim
Former foreign affairs minister Bob Carr yesterday.Source: Supplied
LABOR MPs have criticised Bob Carr’s claim of creeping “apartheid” by Israel, with one describing the former foreign minister and NSW premier as the self-appointed “Pope of Social Democracy”.
Mr Carr, the inaugural patron of Labor Friends of Palestine, hit back at claims he was “grandstanding” and a “dilettante” for leading a party push to recognise the Arabs’ 26-year-old claim to statehood. He said it was “inevitable” that Labor would support recognition of Palestine, possibly before the next election.
As the party prepares for a rancorous ALP national conference battle over the issue, several of Mr Carr’s former colleagues moved to distance themselves from his comments — or openly attack him. Deputy Labor leader Tanya Plibersek said recognition of Palestinian statehood must occur “in the context of a negotiated peace process”. “I don’t think we should diminish the seriousness of the apartheid struggle in South Africa,” the opposition foreign affairs spokeswoman told Sky News’sViewpoint.
Melbourne Ports MP Michael Danby accused Mr Carr, who founded Labor Friends for Israel with Bob Hawke in 1977, of obsessing about overturning Labor’s support for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
He called Mr Carr “the Pope of Social Democracy” pronouncing party policy. “Bob Carr never says anything about the seven million peaceful Tibetans living under Chinese oppression, “ he said.
“He has never said anything about the 300,000 North Koreans in concentration camps. He said little about the 200,000 dead in Syria, or the Christians and other minorities facing death right across the Middle East,” Mr Danby, one of two Jewish federal Labor MPs, told The Australian.
“We will not solve, let alone impose, a solution on the Israelis or Palestinians from Australia.”
Mr Carr now believes fanatics in the Israeli government favour ongoing “apartheid” over a two-state solution. He did not know how long it would take for the Labor Party to achieve a unified stance for a Palestinian state. “These things are being determined on the ground. In the West Bank, the living conditions of the Palestinians are getting worse,” Mr Carr said.
“Every week there’s a new settlement announcement. Every week another Israel cabinet minister announces formally and officially he’s opposed to a Palestinian state.”
Melissa Parke, a former Rudd government minister, said the intervention of a Right faction figure in Mr Carr was important in pushing the issue at the supreme policy meeting, the national conference.
“(Recognition) would be a fairly popular position within the Left and you would also have many people within the Right who have had a change of heart on this issue in recent years,” the Fremantle MP said. “If I were to say this, nobody would be surprised and it probably wouldn’t get much attention. But when it’s somebody like Bob Carr, such a respected figure in Australian politics over many years, it makes people stand up and take notice.”
Josh Frydenberg, the Coalition’s only Jewish MP, attacked Mr Carr as a “lazy” minister and a “dilettante” on foreign affairs.
“This grandstanding by Bob Carr is all about him. It is nothing else but an obsession on Bob Carr’s part,” Mr Frydenberg told Sky News’s Australian Agenda.
“I just think it is because he has got relevance-deprivation syndrome. He was a failure as a state premier, he was a failure as a foreign minister.”
Mr Frydenberg also criticised Mr Carr’s “obsession” with Israel while remaining “silent” about Islamic State.
Mr Carr discounted Mr Frydenberg as a “fanatical Likud supporter” who supported settlements and opposed a two-state solution.
“Fanaticism adds nothing to this debate,” he said.
“ISIL (Islamic State) has got nothing to do with Palestinians. The spread of settlements or the loss of the opportunity for a two-state solution I think is the issue here. To suddenly throw ISIL up as a reason for no two-state solution is pure opportunism.”
Mr Carr said as more countries observed that a two-state solution was unlikely, and as settlements spread, other governments would follow Sweden’s lead in recognising a Palestinian state.
The British House of Commons also voted to recognise the state of Palestine last month in a symbolic and non-binding motion that passed 274 to 12. More than half of MPs abstained, although Labour leader Ed Miliband, who is Jewish, voted in favour.
Bob Carr recognizes Israeli policy for what it is - genocide directed against the Palestinians. Good on him. Here's hoping that all Australians, and particularly the Government, recognize the obvious and take action.
A good start would be to follow Sweden's example and recognize Palestine as a state.
Ever since the 1967 Six Day War that saw Israel capture the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights, Israeli governments have actively encouraged the mass illegal migration and state-sponsored people smuggling of Jewish settlers.It has done so through a raft of special laws, regulations, policies and incentives, backed up by military force, social segregation and a compliant legal system. Such settlements are illegal according to almost 50 years of international consensus in the United Nations General Assembly, the Security Council and the International Court of Justice. So everyone wanting a just peace will agree that removal of the settlements is a necessary prerequisite to any repeat any just peace. Simple, really.
It is clear from Editorials in the Australian and other articles that 3 or 4 or so Israeli PM’s over the past 20 years - Ehud Barak in 2000, Ariel Sharon in 2005 and Ehud Olmert in 2008 - offered two state solution and peace deals - with possibly 95% of what the Palestinians wanted - to the Palestinians and were knocked back by Arrafat, Fatah and Hamas. It is also clear that the Palestinian terrorists, Hamas etc have been firing rockets into Israel for years. In the recent Hamas initiated attacks on Israel, Hamas planted their terrorists and tunnels and fired rockets from or near hospitals, in and near Palestinian homes and also near the United Nations. When the Israelis retaliated they first warned the Palestinians by phone, leaflet etc that they were going to attack but it has been reported that Hamas stopped the Palestinians from leaving those areas and even shot some Palestinians who tried to leave. One reference point is:- “ The Gaza war is not a PR battle
Having recently visited Israel and the West Bank territories one thing struck me. Every merchant in the West Bank claimed that everything was cheaper there than in Israel because there were no taxes. Unfortunately no taxes means no government services and that is why living standards are going backwards in the West Bank. The place has gone backwards since separation because nothing is invested by the people through a normal government. Recognition will not change anything about standards of living,
@Jim Nobody minds them having a state as long as they quit their terrorist activities. They would have had a state years ago if they have been able to control their violent impulses. There is no reason that Israel is obliged to tolerate rockets raining down on them.
Ah, once again, the stench of Carr's ineptitude wafts through the air. Imagine, a Laborite bad-mouthing the Jews. Just a thought, Bob, but doesn't your battered party count on Jewish votes in Melbourne and other cities? Once again, you're not helping.
How perceptive of Mr Frydenberg to diagnose Bob Carr's problem as relevance-deprivation syndrome. He's found a bandwagon that want him, one requiring an about face but so what, he's back in a position where he can waffle on about history lessons that no one asked to hear. Whoever has him now must remember that the bar fridge has to be stacked with nuts, all raw and unsalted, pistachios, walnuts, almonds, no sandwiiches only proper meals, water must be bottled and he runs up very big daily bills for world travel.
And this architect of the NSW demise has all the diplomacy of a twerp... but he does serve a purpose, by joining in with Senator Rhiannon's views, in that he not only divides Labor, but makes Labor look foolish; and to think he was once our foreign Minister.
Mr Carr’s appointment as patron of Labor Friends of Palestine is tantamount to supporting Hamas which has been designated a terrorist organisation and has adeclared intent to eradicate the state of Israel. If the Palestinians and Mr Carr want peace there is simple straight forward solution for those living in Gaza – rid the strip of Hamas and accept the fact that the Israelis have earlier made 3 attempts to establish a two state solution - Ehud Barak in 2000, Ariel Sharon in 2005 and Ehud Olmert in 2008.These offers would have guaranteed unprecedented Palestinian autonomy and, eventually, statehood. In the long run these offers provide a template for a solution to this protracted conflict and Labor Friends of Palestine in their support of the Hamas regime in Gaza are undermining any hope of peace for the Palestinian people.
@Phil Nothing changes with Labor. Under Whitlam some of his cadre were members of the World Peace Corps which was a Russian (KGB) front. Jim Cairns was particularly prominent and that group effectively manipulated the anti Vietnam protest marches because North Vietnam was fully supported and armed by Russia. Explains Whitlam's hatred of South Vietnam does it not. Carr is cast in the same mould as Cairns, supporting a terrorist organisation (Hamas) while bemoaning the lack of silk pyjamas.
So Carr's response to critics is to label them fanatics. Yeh that is consistent with the left. Make all dissenters non-persons. Never engage just abuse and exclude.
Should pop Bob in the middle of Israel, not is some of the 5 star suites he so enjoyed whilst writing his non-factual memoirs on the taxpayers dime, but in the streets proper next to Gaza and see how he goes with the sympathy and inclusion that the Palestinians toss across the border in the form of exploding bits of metal from time to time.
So sick of these appeasers.
Israel does NOT need to accommodate anyone in the region. They need to accommodate Israel having lost any semblance of moral equivalence decades and indeed many thousands of years ago.
Israel is of the West and a liberal democracy grounded on natural justice, Christianity and sense.
Support it or get out the way Carr. You embarrass me as an Australian and member of the West.
@AJ Illegal, why? Territory which was supposed to be part of the mandated territory of Israel under a United Nations agreement! Here's the rub, the Arabs invaded, lost, and all of a sudden it is all Israel's fault. Israel is the only state on the planet which has to justify territorial gains. It could have kept Sinai, it could have kept Gaza, but it didn't. Both territories were given up in the hope of peace. They are now someone else's problem. Might have done the same with the West bank, but how far forward would we be?
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law. The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.
As one who lived under and actively fought against apartheid, I deeply resent Bob Carr's ignorant comparison of South Africa and Israel. He knows not of what he speaks. I suggest that he is the perfect example of a fair weather friend, changing sides when the first friend no longer serves his selfish purpose.He clearly was no friend of Israel, rather a political opportunist cynically using his faux "friendship" for his own electoral purpose.
Bob Carr has shown himself to be a shameless opportunist since the day he strode out of the premiership, claiming there was more to life etc etc, straight into the plush offices of Macquarie Bank. He took the plum Foreign Minister job, swanned around the world making ridiculous demands he's unembarrassed about recounting in his autobiography, and walked out on that when it was clear Labor would lose the election. Now that it suits Labor's electoral chances to woo the Muslim vote, he has thrown Israel under the bus, declared it fanatical and re-written the history of "moderate" Palestinian peace initiatives. It is laughable.
So those people saying don't shoot the messenger, it is naive to think that Carr's "epiphany" was born of principle, not opportunism.
Oh dear, the Likud fanatics are at it again. Every time someone comes out in support of Palestinian Statehood the Likud fanatical cheer squad come out. There is a reason why more and more States and individuals are openly and directly supporting Palestinian statehood and that is because Likud keep stealing land from Palestine to build settlements and buffer zones and walls and whatever else.....and have no interest in Palestinian statehood. Bod Carr is 110% right.
@Messiah So there's only one acceptable position on Palestine and if you oppose this then you're obviously part of a world-wide fanatical Zionist/Likudnik conspiracy. Whereas people who lie about Israel being apartheid, genocidal etc are just objective moderates? LOL
This has nothing to do with an epiphany about Israel on the part of Bob Carr and everything to do with NSW Labor's realization that they are beholden to the Islamic vote in western Sydney to ever govern again in NSW and indeed at a federal level. Cynical politics.
Now a former Foreign Secretary, Carr appears to be trying to attract more attention. Pity he aims at Israel, a democratic nation where muslims co-exist peacefully with jews. A privilege we know which would not be given in any Palestinian state, given their implacable intent of destroying Israel and jews in the Middle East. But, support for a Palestinian state remains a popular left wing goal. And the irony is the left see no hypocrisy or contradiction in their alleged support of freedom of speech and religion and for a Palestinian state.
Fanatical zealots, no matter what their brand, are massively destructive for the world. Unfortunately there isn't equal attention to their multitude of sins in our society. This does not, however, detract from highlighting a couple of them in a particular forum. Think what you like about the messenger; but don't lose the message; Lets shine the spotlight wherever it need be done!
Carr was useless as NSW premier, useless as Foreign Minister and now useless as a pensioner, why does he not get that no one cares about him and shut up? Go and enjoy your well funded retirement, play bowls and raise vegies Carr, we do not wish to hear from you.
@Peter Pensioner!! You mean the recipient of generous super as both a state premier and a commonwealth minister, not to mention whatever he managed to scrape together from the intervening time with Macquarie Group.
@peter...Play bowls and grow vegies!!! CLASSIC. Imagine Dear Bob at the bowls club? First Class dining? Silk PJs ? Correct translations of Tarandot? I'd also doubt he could grow a vegetable...might have to smell the compost. Yep, another one of Julia's Captain's Picks. I loke it when he pops up.....makes me realise how fortunate we are to have Ms Bishop!
Well you know that when Bob Carr gets involved he will not make things any better, look at the government he left in NSW discredited and corrupt. All he will do is make things worse, and this article proves that.
Carr the Cur, that double dipping tricky slime bag is showing his true colours now. Bob take your ill-gotten gains and fade into the obscure.
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